360 Fertility by Liberty Mills – a pragmatic and personal guide to conception

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Becky Saer: You’ve tuned into Becky & Ben’s Fertility Spotlight.

Ben Saer: We offer help and support on the bumpy road of IVF, what to think and what to do.

Becky: In the studio today is Liberty Mills, a health and nutrition coach who knows firsthand how to own your fertility well-being.

Ben: Don’t forget, always speak to a doctor for personalized advice.

Becky: Let’s meet Liberty and hear her amazing story. Liberty, it’s great to have you here. Your story is a really interesting one. You’re a mum, you’re an author, and you’re a coach. I was thinking, which of those roles matters most to you?

Liberty Mills: I would say being a mum. My girls fuel me to do the work that I do. I have to prove to them that within realms, you can make the impossible possible, and you should always go for it, no matter what it is, be it fertility, writing a book, starting your own business, move in a country, so being a mummy.

Becky: I like the way that you are basically a role model for your daughters, being a strong, empowered woman. That really appeals to me because we have two daughters, and I want to show them-

Liberty: Of course.

Becky: -that anything is possible.

Liberty: We’ve been sidelined so much because of our gender. I don’t want that to stop them just because I’m a female.

Ben: Some of the medical challenges that you’ve had along the way, you talk about lupus, which is a very unfortunate condition to have. Do you think that was all part of your journey? Do you think getting through these medical issues made you a stronger person?

Liberty: 100%, and because I got through those, it’s like, I wrote this book, I’m dyslexic, so I found another way to do it. I’m like, “If I can reverse all of my markers within my lupus and get rid of all those symptoms, it I come back another day, I don’t know, I can’t say, but I’m here now and I’m a completely different person to what I was 16 years ago physically, and my blood work is completely different.” If I can do that, why can’t I write a book at 50? Why can’t I go on podcasts? Why can’t I approach someone to do this or that? Medical obstacles have changed my life for the better.

Becky: You had thyroid problems as well?

Liberty: Yes, I still have a thyroid issue. I’ve not tackled that yet. I discovered it, I suspected it when I was on my fertility journey, and the GP said there was nothing wrong with my thyroid. I said, “You haven’t done a full thyroid panel, you’ve only done TSA, the top ones.” “No, you don’t meet the criteria. Your symptoms aren’t–” I said, “I know it’s my thyroid.”

I went and paid, and my thyroid antibodies were four times over the level. That is something I have not addressed as of yet, but it is when I finish Book 2, that’s my next thing to sort out.

Becky: What I like is that you are absolutely not a person to let anyone say no to you.

Liberty: Oh, no, but if they say no, it doesn’t matter. Go and just ask someone else their opinion.

Ben: People should say yes more, shouldn’t they, basically?

Becky: I think so, definitely. Would you say that you are a yes person?

Liberty: I say, “Yes, let’s see what we can do.” I’m not a, “No, no, no.” I’ve had that with some of my fertility clients. I may be scared of going for another IVF round, and I said, “Yes, I can’t guarantee that this is going to work, but yes, I will do every single thing I can to support you all the way through to the end.”

Ben: You had a very low AMH, I read in the book.

Liberty: I had a really low AMH. I can’t remember what it was, but the percentage, they said, of the IVF working with my own eggs was 0.7% chance. I’ve had a number of ladies with low AMH, and I was on a panel with a number of obstetricians and gynecologists the other week, and even they were saying, “That shouldn’t be just what we pin everything on. There’s other contributing factors, so don’t freak out if you’ve got a low ovarian reserve. It’s the quality as well as the quantity.”

Ben: Absolutely, and AMH is something people slightly obsess about. Typically, people in your age range don’t have that good luck. What’s your secret? Was it luck or was it something more?

Liberty: I don’t know. Was it luck, was it not? I have a number of women that have conceived naturally in their 40s. They’ve given their account in my book. I’ve had other clients where they’ve been told they have to have egg donor, and they’ve conceived naturally, or they’ve conceived with IVF with their own eggs. For me, it was trying to understand that enormity of it all, look at all my blood work, look at what I could improve. Also, what could I do to improve the host body once we had implanted, because we did have an early miscarriage at six, seven weeks, I think it was.

Becky: Oh, I’m sorry.

Liberty: It was what could I do for that, and also what could my partner do? I’m sick and tired of everyone going on about what can the woman do. If you’ve got okay eggs and okay sperm, well, the guy needs to pull up as well and really improve his sperm because together, that’s what we’re giving as a blueprint for our future child.

Becky: In your book, 360 Fertility, you say, “Prioritizing your health and well-being in the three months before embarking on your fertility journey can make a world of difference.” That’s presumably what you did.

Liberty: It was May, and then I found out I was pregnant in the October. I changed a lot. I used to be such a gym bunny, sporty pants, because being strong is really important to me, because of my lupus, also don’t want to be weak. Also, it’s a good mental health thing for me. I was going maybe five, six times a week, and there was stick-fighting training as well. That was a lot of pressure on my body, so I let that go.

Ben: There is some evidence, if you do excessive exercise before, too, that’s actually not good.

Liberty: No, no. I was like, “Okay, let’s also look as if I’m going into IVF,” because that was my plan. Go back, have better quality eggs and better quality body, and then they would give us a chance. In that time, I became pregnant.

Ben: Amazing story.

Liberty: We often, in this journey, are very stressed. We soldier on. When I see it day in, day out with my clients, and I say, “You’re feeling okay?” Then like, “I’m fine.” Then I get on the room and say, “How’re you feeling?” They burst out crying and say, “I feel awful.”

Becky: That’s so true.

Liberty: Stress depletes your magnesium. It depletes so many vitamins and minerals. Also, stress depletes the quality of the sperm as well. If you’re stressed trying to get pregnant around the ovulation period, or you’re stressed when you have to leave your sperm sample at the IVF clinic, it’s not going to help, is it? A study has just been presented this year. Secondary ejaculation is better than the first one.

It had better concentration. It had less– 53, I’ll give you the exact amount. It was 53 point something lower DNA fragmentation. It was higher concentration and higher motility, and they did this within the IVF clinics. People that would’ve needed ICSI with the first sperm sample didn’t need it with the second sample. It had to be taken within an hour, I think, to three hours after the first sample.

Becky: I like the way that in your book, you were as concerned about men as women.

Liberty: 100%. They have been left out to dry. It’s awful. It’s absolutely awful. With my clients, majority of people that come to me, there is a male factor. Quite often, it’s a sole male factor, and people have just gone, “Oh, well, you can just have IVF.” Well, that’s not accessible to everybody. If you’ve already got one child, you’re not eligible for it on the NHS. That financially excludes so many people, and so it’s not a guarantee. It doesn’t fix everybody. For the majority of men, unless you have something medically wrong with you, you can improve a lot of the sperm.

Ben: I can vouch that being a man in an IVF situation is quite intimidating. I remember this, everyone laughs about it, “You’ve got the easy job, just go into that room.” Of course, the psychological burden is huge as well, and we speak to lots of patients and lots of male partners who get terribly worried about things. These days, we are seeing an intervention of more natural remedies, natural approaches to our fertility and our health.

When we had our treatment, we just went to the clinic, did what we were told, came back, and that was it. People are really owning their fertility now, so a lot of your book is about the care that you take, for example, at home.

Liberty: I borrowed a leading brand of powder from someone’s house, and I had to push it along the side on the table. Of course, it fell off and covered the whole of my kitchen. While I was mopping it up and turn it up, I was coughing, splattering. If that’s just affecting me from dropping it on my kitchen floor, and it’s affecting my lungs and all of that, how is that affecting my body?

When people say to me, “Oh, it’s not going to make any difference what you put on your skin and all of these things,” I say, “Okay. Why, if you work in a lab, are you not allowed to wear perfume?” Why, if HRT, for example, works? If you’re telling me HRT affects my hormones, makes me a better and more balanced person because I can rub a gel on, why then, if you rub self-tan on, is that not going to go into your body? You can’t have it one way and not the other.

Becky: That’s very true. I’m on HRT and I love it.

Liberty: See, and it’s made a difference for you, right?

Becky: Yes, massively, and I use a spray. It’s amazing.

Liberty: Right, and that’s just a spray. The spray, again, what you’re spraying around your candles, your diffusers, all of these things, dry shampoo, it’s got to make a difference.

Becky: Absolutely.

Liberty: You put all that together, and it’s a big thing. I don’t want to scare people, but just think of what simple choices you can make and remove and replace when that runs out.

Becky: That’s a really good point.

Ben: If a couple read your book and only did, say, two things a week as opposed to the hundreds of very interesting things that you list, that would be something, wouldn’t it? Sleep, for example. You talk about sleep. I’ve had sleep problems in my life. What I’ve noticed, actually, I gave up sugar like you did, for me, about four weeks ago, and I’ve noticed my sleep has improved. That’s just one thing.

Liberty: That’s free. We all know everything in fertility is expensive. That’s free. I just recently cracked a rib, and I have not been sleeping well. What do I crave the next day? I’ve been baking bread at 6:00 in the morning because I just want some bread, making my own jam. That’s because I haven’t had good sleep quality. Sleep is free. Just sort out your sleep hygiene, people. Just because it’s Saturday night doesn’t mean you have to stay up till 1:00 AM because your body doesn’t know the difference between a Wednesday and a Saturday.

Ben: Digital detoxing, not using your mobile for an hour after you get up, that seems like a great idea.

Liberty: Don’t use your– or an hour before bed. I had a young female client who had high anxiety. I couldn’t recommend any supplements or anything. I just had to work on her lifestyle. She was under medication, all of these things, being guided by medical professionals. That is one thing I changed with her, was the digital thing and the sugar.

Within, I don’t know, it was a few months, she was taken off her medication. All her anxiety had gone away. She was able to go back to school.

Becky: That’s HRT.

Liberty: She felt better about herself. Her mum sent me the most beautiful email saying, “I feel like I’ve got my daughter back.” That’s just removing two hours a day of screens and not letting her have Nutella on toast for breakfast.

Becky: You write very passionately about helping people in your book, and I was really touched by your kindness. Has that always been in your nature?

Liberty: I was working recently with a coach, a hypnotist, on fear of flying. They were asking me about my life, and I didn’t realize where this must’ve come from. My dad tried to kill himself when I was eight years old. He was then taken into a mental institution, Prestwich Mental Hospital. I don’t know if he was in there for weeks or months, but for me, as an eight, nine-year-old girl, it felt like he was in there for months.

Becky: That must be so traumatic.

Liberty: That he was my hero, and he was the kindest, nicest, funny, cool, interesting man that I idolized my dad. I thought, “How could he be unhappy?” I think I’ve always then just cheered for the underdog. I think that’s where it must’ve stemmed from, but I hadn’t connected it to a few months ago when I had this therapy.

Ben: I’m very interested to know about the past and traumatic events, and difficult events in people’s lives that might affect their fertility.

Liberty: It really does. Here, I’d like to pass over to the wonderful work of Dr. Julie Von. She’s a doctor in America. She’s written a book that’s wonderful called Spiritual Fertility Book. She really works a lot on that. Her and I chat a lot. I’m a huge fan of hers. She noticed a lot of ladies that were coming into her clinic for gynaecological problems, they had a link of this transgenerational trauma. Then she was like, “What is this? They all have this in common. I need to look into it.”

We can pass on things. If you have certain diseases, we can pass it on, and it’s just the same. We can turn on these expressions of how the genes are [unintelligible 00:14:39] expressed within our bodies and within our children. It’s very, very prominent for women because our eggs are in our body when we’re already in our mummy.

Becky: My grandfather was in the First World War. He was tough. He was really tough. He had a cold bath every morning. [laughs]

Liberty: Oh, yes.

Becky: One of those guys, very stiff upper lip, but a brave guy. I think that those epigenetics were– I think they were transferred to my father. He was very brave. I just think it’s really interesting that that whole kind of– as you say, that experience, but also the trauma, how it can be passed through.

Liberty: Many people don’t even ask their mum, “What was going on when you were pregnant with– was it a stressful time? Did you have antibiotics?” All of these–

Becky: “Did you smoke?”

Liberty: “Did you smoke?” All of these things.

Becky: “Did your mum smoke?”

Liberty: “Did your mum smoke?” I have ridges on the front of my teeth. I wasn’t born with teeth, was I? I went to see a dentist and he said, “Oh, did your mum have antibiotics when she was pregnant?” I said, “Are you talking about my ridges?” He was like, “Yes, how’d you know?”

Becky: Wow. Really?

Liberty: That’s because of what my mum had to have. Yes, antibiotics, she needed them. I might’ve died in the womb if she wouldn’t have had them, but that’s why I have the ridges on my teeth. It’s nothing to do with my oral hygiene.

Ben: I’m sure I read a study that said that if you don’t breastfeed, the formation of your jaw can be affected. I just wonder because my jaw is not this sort of chiseled, Hollywood jaw that some people might want me to have.

Becky: George Clooney.

Ben: George Clooney. I just wonder whether I wasn’t breastfed.

Liberty: [crosstalk] You [unintelligible 00:16:14] shape of your face and the way your teeth grow as well.

Becky: You had a lot of trauma in your childhood, so maybe that’s connected with your teeth.

Liberty: There you go. We can work with that because the body holds onto that trauma.

Becky: You mentioned in your book that you had a stillbirth.

Liberty: Yes, it was 20 weeks.

Becky: 20 weeks, and you were in your 20s.

Liberty: I was 25.

Becky: That must’ve been incredibly tough.

Liberty: It was one of the longest births that I’ve had. My first daughter was two hours, 20 minutes, flew out.

Becky: Wow.

Liberty: This was over 12 hours. At the time, I was given a leaf that I never forget lying there. I looked really young as well. I looked so young when I look back at pictures now. Looked about I was 16. The doctor said, “Congratulations,” he said, “Your baby has successfully aborted itself. I had no follow-up checks, no extra scans, nothing, no support. It was 26 years ago, but–

Ben: That stuns me. It stuns me.

Becky: That is just shocking. In terms of carrying the trauma with you, do you feel that you’ve managed to live with it, or do you feel you’ve healed yourself?

Liberty: I was really angry for many years. Then after I healed myself from lupus, I decided I’m going to do all those things that I never did. I decided I wanted to be an actress for a while, and I went off and did that. I got this scholarship for this place. We did method acting. One of the things you have to do was body psychotherapy, and it really helped me. I didn’t know that I was holding in all of this anger. I was really angry, and it helped.

If you’d been on the course for a year, you had to do six months body psychotherapy, and it helped so much. I cry every time when I tell my clients who’ve had miscarriages. I say, “You’re still carrying. You get to carry your child for the rest of your life.” Even ladies that have had to have a termination for whatever reason, often there’s guilt from that. Then they go on and find out they can’t conceive, or there’s a struggle to conceive. It’s nice to know that you will always get to carry your child, even if you didn’t get to parent them.

Becky: I had three miscarriages. One of them, my baby was diagnosed with body-stalk anomaly, which is a very, very rare disease when the baby doesn’t grow in the right way. We had a wonderful doctor at QMC in Nottingham. She was amazing. I had to have a medical termination at 14 and a half weeks, so it’s not a stillbirth, but it still then–

Liberty: Yes, but still.

Becky: We saw her. We had a lovely– well, not lovely, that’s the wrong word, really, but we had a very profound experience seeing her, seeing Elsie. I was just talking to Ben about it this morning, about how I still carry it with me. I wouldn’t say I’ve healed, but I would say that I’ve accepted it.

Ben: You never get over it. I don’t think there’s enough–

Becky: I don’t think you ever get over it.

Liberty: Well, for me, the way I make sense of it in my little head is, if their DNA is crossed over into our body, then any children as well that if you have after must cross over into their body. I get to parent them, but just not in the body that they were going to have.

Becky: That’s really interesting.

Liberty: That’s the way I have it in my head.

Ben: I want to come back to the book and the immense effort you put into talking about eating and drinking properly.

Liberty: Everything you eat and what that has eaten goes into your child. The cow or the carrot that has eaten up the nutrients from the soil is going into your body. Our soil is not what it used to be. We spray our crops. If you buy something and it says it’s grass-fed butter, they still spray the grass. I hadn’t even thought of that until I started working with a farmer. I couldn’t believe all these ailments he had, and his sperm was not very great. He said, “Well, what do you think I spray the grass with?” I was just like, “Wow, yes, you’re right.”

Becky: It’s really tough, isn’t it, but that’s your–

Liberty: That’s why it’s like you’ve got to go for those detoxification processes, like take your glutathione and things like that, because we can’t always access the best food in the world. What do you do if you go to a restaurant? You can’t say, “Oh, where did you get your carrot from? Is it organic? Is it that?” You can’t always afford it anyway.

Becky: Exactly, because organic food is very expensive.

Liberty: It’s so expensive.

Becky: It’s very elitist.

Liberty: It really is. We grow our own potatoes now into sacks.

Becky: Well, that’s really satisfying. [chuckles]

Liberty: It is really satisfying, and they taste better, and it didn’t cost anything. You just get a potato. Buy that one packet of organic potatoes. Get one potato. You wait until all the bits sprout out, and then you plant it in these sacks.

Ben: You’re quite militant, if I may say so, about alcohol, stopping alcohol.

Liberty: I’m really militant about it, I know. You can tell by my voice now. I’ve dropped into my [laughter] northern voice.

Ben: We were too.

Liberty: Good.

Ben: We gave it up as well.

Becky: We did. We–

Liberty: I’m not saying for the rest of your life.

Ben: It is a poison, so why not stop it?

Liberty: The cowboys in those old movies, they say, “What’s your poison?” End of story.

Becky: Absolutely. We did for three months before we had our fertility treatment. We did, just I guess through common sense, we tried to make ourselves fit and healthier and eat better.

Liberty: Alcohol as well, it’s not the fact that it’s just a poison, for me, Ben, you were saying that I really– about your sleep, and me, after university, I was not the best sleeper from then onwards. It’s about that sleep quality. Alcohol, even just two glasses, especially for a woman, really affects our REM sleep. For me, I’d rather have better quality sleep and my body be able to detoxify and replenish than two glasses of wine.

Ben: Caffeine too, not forever, so we gave that up, didn’t we? We went the extra hold and gave that up.

Liberty: Oh, I didn’t. I still had one a day. That was it.

Becky: Well, funny enough, I just did a talking fertility where I say, “It’s okay if you have one or two a day. It’s fine.” I did give it up because I’m a bit like that. The other thing, [unintelligible 00:22:31]—

Liberty: It’s everyone’s by individual.

Becky: Exactly.

Liberty: Some people are a bit more [unintelligible 00:22:34] or they can’t sleep later on at night. Some might be just going down to one coffee or a decaf, or having it a few hours earlier in the day than you would have done. That’s why I really encourage people to make their own food diary and work out what is tripping them up and what isn’t.

Becky: That’s a really good idea. Now, I’m going to get onto sex now-

Liberty: Good.

Becky: -because I noticed your sex [chuckles] chapter.

Liberty: It’s so important because all the books I read, [unintelligible 00:23:04] if now you’re talking about fertility, and no one’s talking about sex. They’re telling you when to do it, but not about how it’s actually affecting your sex life and how you feel about your own body.

Becky: It’s tough, though, isn’t it?

Liberty: We had to have sex once on the way to our friend’s because I’d had my acupuncture. I was like, “Benjamin, when are we going to have sex? We can’t have sex in their house. We’re visiting them in Norfolk. [laughter] What are we going to do?” I said, “I’ve not just had all those bloody-

Becky: Were you in the car?

Liberty: -needles put in.” In the car. [laughter] We had to drive down the side of some country lane. I was like, “Hurry up. Hurry up. Just get it over and done with. Someone’s going to drive past.” He’s like, “The farmer’s looking.” I was like, “Just don’t look. Just do it.”

Ben: It reminded me of your story when you unfortunately had the lupus attack after having acupuncture.

Liberty: Oh, yes. No, I felt I was having it. I didn’t have one. That’s when we did get pregnant. The acupuncturist to this day doesn’t know what was going on. I had joint pain all over, my stomach bloated up. Benjamin came back from work, and I was like, “I’m never having acupuncture again. I can’t do it. I don’t like it.” I like it now, didn’t like it then. I said, “You’re just going to have sex with me.” He was like, I can’t. You’re in pain. I said, “Just put a pillow over my face or something, [laughter] or think of someone really pretty and don’t look at me.”

Becky: Very sweetly in your book, you do encourage couples going through fertility issues to relax and have a date night.

Liberty: It depends on the client and who they are, but I’ll be like, “Don’t have sex.” If you tell people not to have sex, they want to have sex. Or if they live in a bigger house, I say, “Right, for the next two weeks, you’re both going to be in separate bedrooms.” Trust me, within four days, they’re having sex because they want to have sex.

Ben: I wanted to come on to some of the more unusual suggestions in your book, which I’m sure some people will follow. I’m not sure I would, but probably because I’m just boring. [laughter] The [unintelligible 00:24:56], taking extra oxygen, tell me more.

Liberty: Oh, I love hyperbaric oxygen chamber therapy. I love it for myself.

Becky: It sounds really science fiction.

Liberty: It does.

Becky: You mentioned in your book that quite a few celebs do, and so on.

Liberty: Yes, and I wanted to put in those things because everyone’s different, so why not put in the things when someone wants to go– Some people don’t like acupuncture. Some people are scared of needles, so hyperbaric oxygen chamber therapy is a little bit the way I see it as acupuncture on steroids. It really pushes all of that blood flow around your body. It’s a good option for someone that might be petrified from needles. There’s some really good clinical studies on it.

Becky: This is literally pure oxygen that you basically inhale for an hour. Is that right?

Liberty: Yes. You can lie down in these tanks that look a bit like old sun beds, or you can go in what looks a bit like the front of a helicopter. You could go in there with someone else, and you can sit and watch a movie or read a book, whatever you want.

Becky: I love getting out and getting on my bike, my bicycle, and cycling around or walking with that lovely early morning light. I know that’s good for you. Research proves-

Liberty: It’s really good for you.

Becky: -that it’s so good for you. It sets you up for the day.

Liberty: So many people stay indoors for so many of their day. You get up, you might get on the tube, stay indoors in your office all day, come home, and you’re tired, you stay in, and you’ve had no daylight, no fresh air.

Ben: There are plenty of people who we speak to who ask about swimming. What do you think about that?

Liberty: It depends where you’re swimming, I guess, right?

Ben: Yes.

Liberty: In a swimming pool, I’m thinking maybe not because of all the chemicals they have to put in it, because everyone else has germs and–

Becky: How do you feel about sea swimming?

Liberty: I think sea swimming is fine. Very exhilarating for the body.

Becky: I noticed that at the end of your book, you said that your 360 fertility is an [unintelligible 00:26:58] [crosstalk].

Liberty: It never stops, because hopefully someone does get on to have a child at some point, whatever way that may be. Is it surrogacy, their own child, an egg donor, sperm donor, adoption? It never stops, does it, because then it’s like, what kind of parent are you? How healthy are you going to be for them? Then what have you passed down onto them? For me, it was that never-ending circle of life.

Becky: I thought it was interesting that you pointed out the gap in the circle,-

Liberty: Yes, the gap.

Becky: -which I interpreted as being that ability to let in creativity, but also not to expect to have perfection.

Liberty: Exactly. Nothing isn’t perfection. Like me, I reversed all my lupus, but I’ve got Hashimoto’s. I’ve got Hashimoto’s, but I don’t use a walking stick. For me, that circle doesn’t have to be complete. Striving for that perfection, nothing is perfect ever. My clients sometimes say to me, “Everyone seems to be pregnant,” but you don’t know what journey they’ve gone on. There might be, but there might be five miscarriages down the line. They might have had to have egg donor, sperm donor. We don’t know.

Ben: I see that symbol as meaning you’re coming around, not just full circle, but that, in a sense, you’re rejoining yourself.

Liberty: Exactly. You’re finding your true self of how we were hopefully born. All of these things. Like me, I was probably born a little bit more vulnerable, but then certain traumas, like my dad modeling in Japan, very young, in a mold-infested apartment, just not really eating properly because our agency wouldn’t let us eat. They wouldn’t give us enough money to eat, [chuckles] and high mercury because we could get free, cheap sushi if we went to certain nightclubs, drinking lots of alcohol.

Of course, then you build all of that up. I was in a not very great marriage when I was 23. All of those things stack up. It’s about undoing some of those things and coming back to your real self.

Becky: Discovering your true self.

Ben: I think IVF is the emotional ride of your life, really, or fertility is the emotional ride of your life.

Becky: Or the emotional battle.

Ben: The battle. If it works, which it does for most people these days, for most people, not all, then it is a way of coming full circle and finding yourself. It’s a very liberating feeling when it works.

Becky: It’s just been really, really fascinating talking to you. I’d like to say thank you so much for coming and just discussing and being so open and revealing so much that is helpful for fertility couples, for us, and for people going through great difficulties.

[music]

Ben: Because you’ve lived a full life, you’ve written this great book. You’re helping people through the book and through your work. For that, we’re grateful.

Becky: That was Becky & Ben’s Fertility Spotlight.

Ben: Hope you like the podcast. If you do, please join our Instagram community.

Becky: In the next episode, we open up about being older parents, not just older patients.

Ben: Remember, always speak to a healthcare professional for medical advice tailored to you.

Becky: Don’t despair.

Ben: We’ll get there.

[00:30:34] [END OF AUDIO]