Becky: This is Becky & Ben’s Fertility Spotlight.
Ben: We’ve helped thousands of IVF couples.
Becky: We’re here to share kindness, insights, and surprises.
Ben: Today, we’re talking about donor eggs and whether they’re right for you or not.
Becky: Our podcast is general information only. Always speak to a healthcare professional about your situation.
Ben: Let’s get started on egg donation and the key things to think about.
[music]
Becky: Here we are, Season 2. It’s absolutely brilliant to be back. Thank you so much, everyone, for listening to Season 1 of Becky and Ben’s Fertility Spotlight.
Ben: We really appreciate all the comments that you’ve sent, all the emails, all the suggestions for programme ideas and things like that. Thank you so much.
Becky: Today, we are going to look at a big decision. Basically, should you have donor eggs?
Ben: What we’re talking about is that big decision, the decision to have donor eggs. Becky, you’ll remember that the first time we encountered the idea of having donor eggs, it wasn’t really that positive, was it?
Becky: No. I remember some friends came to visit, and they’d been struggling with their IVF experience. They walked into our kitchen with two beautiful babies. I was like, “Oh, goodness, look at these gorgeous babies.” She was like, “Yes, look at my donor egg twins.” I was like, “Oh, wow, in my head, donor egg, donor egg, donor egg.” I’d never even heard of the term. My visceral reaction, and I’m ashamed of it, ashamed of saying it now, was like, “Oh my God, I can never go there.” I came away from that experience thinking, I am ignorant, and I have just been quite judgmental.
Ben: I was on a walk that evening after they left, just thinking, I’m so pleased for them, but I couldn’t do it. I couldn’t countenance the idea of donated eggs.
Becky: What’s really important to say is, is that we hadn’t even started on our IVF experience. We hadn’t even had IUIs. We hadn’t even had any IVF cycles. We had no understanding of the heartbreak and the challenges that you go through when you have repeated failure. We weren’t even in that place.
Ben: Yes, we weren’t in the place. The zone we were in was achieving with our own eggs, and we hadn’t even started fertility treatment. We weren’t being ungenerous towards them at all. We showed our delight to them, of course. I think the point we’re trying to make here is this, that almost every single person, I would say, who contemplates the idea of donated eggs is not sure initially. Nobody just goes, “Yes, donor eggs, great, that’s a great idea.”
Becky: It’s very rare. It’s often connected with grieving the loss of one’s own eggs. Often, women who are older, who have had great difficulty conceiving, who have gone through IVF, realize that after three or four cycles that the chances of them achieving a successful pregnancy are just very, very low. Then, of course, the idea of egg donation comes in and donor embryos, et cetera, et cetera. This offers a very hopeful new future.
Ben: We’re talking here about that moment for the first time, when you think about it, where a seed is planted in your head, where many people just are saying to themselves, either consciously or unconsciously, “I just need a bit more time here.” It reminded me of a patient that we helped, patients actually, Liz and Rob, who kindly allowed us to film a video testimonial of them after they succeeded with donated eggs, and we helped them along the way. Liz particularly, she’s a GP, and she has that sense of articulation and professionalism about the way that she approaches medical situations.
What she basically said was, if donor eggs may be on the cards for you, park it in the back of your brain, think about it as an option. You may come around to it in three months, it may be three years. She just says it so correctly because it is a process, because fertility treatment is about emotions, but it is also about thinking quite hard about your options.
Becky: That’s so true. I love that idea of parking the idea and literally in a lay-by in your head, like a car or a bicycle, just leaving it there and thinking, “Okay, I might just revisit this idea in three months.” As we’ve mentioned before in previous episodes, we had six months of counseling to come around to the idea of going for it with donor conception. Ben did a lot of research.
Ben: I did the research, and yes, we had the counseling, and it helped both in terms of framing our thoughts for the next chapter, i.e., donor eggs, which we were still considering at the time. Bidding farewell to your eggs, Becky, which I know was huge for you.
Becky: For you.
Ben: It was not nice witnessing it because it is so deeply, deeply personal.
Becky: It was really hard. I suppose in the end, and I’ve mentioned this before, you weigh up how much you just really want to have a family, have a baby, and you come to the realization that the only way to do that when you’re 43, for example, is to have a leap of faith and think, “Okay, there are these amazing donors out there who are wonderful people, prepared to donate their eggs to women they have no idea of who they are.” It was a leap of faith that made me think, “Okay, well, I’m going to go for it. I’m going to be brave. They–
Ben: We were prepared to do that leap of faith after maybe six, nine months, something like that, wasn’t it? Sometimes it takes people a bit longer to get their heads around it. I think the point we’re trying to say here is it is a big decision for us and for the people that we’ve been fortunate enough to help along the way. Donor eggs did come to our aid. Becky, we should just mention the other big one. Obviously, the big one is the decision in the first place. The second one that everybody asks about, and we did too, having made the decision, is donor matching.
Becky: Yes, donor matching.
Ben: Will my donor look like me or you?
Becky: Yes, that’s key. That’s absolutely key. We had our treatment in the Czech Republic, where donors are anonymous, but we did have some information, and that she was university-educated, she was good at sport, and just various things that we learnt about, but it was limited. We knew that this donor was 20 years old. She was probably a medical student; we’re not sure, but Brno is a university town. We decided to go for it. We knew that we would give our photographs, and the clinic would match our photographs with this anonymous donor.
Ben: The match seemed pretty good to us. I think most people that we’ve spoken to understand that an exact match is never– It’s usually not possible.
Becky: Exactly. Also, people have kids from their own genetic heritage who don’t look like them, or they might look like their grandparents. It’s a bit of a lottery, really, but we have two gorgeous kids who I think look like us. Not that that’s the point.
Ben: I think what we should just say, given that we’re looking at the basic questions here about the donor route, is just to say maybe try not to get too hung up on donor matching. There’ll always be a clinic out there somewhere in the world, probably in California– I love you, California, by the way– where you can actually see photos of your donors, and you can do fantastic matches, and everything’s perfect. For most people, certainly in the EU, you don’t get photos of your donor. You do rely on the doctor, and the chances are pretty good of a pretty good match.
Moving on then, as we said in series one, our first donor egg cycle, very sadly, didn’t work. Becky, it just pains me even to think about what you went through, but you basically had to have a medical termination at 14 weeks. Kindness got us through it. I remember, for example, the hospital vicar coming and saying a prayer for us. That meant a lot, didn’t it?
Becky: It did. He was so sensitive and so sweet to us. We weren’t even religious, but he just came into the hospital room, and he said a prayer for us.
Ben: It was also another vicar in the family, actually, in my family, who said a few days later, he said, “You do realize, don’t you, that you are a family already,” which I thought was a very nice thing to say. It did work for us the second time, and we were actually delighted with that. Your pregnancy happened during a sad time because your father was ill, Tim, and we were looking after him during the pregnancy. It was a very special moment for us.
Becky: Yes, it was a very special time because obviously we were absolutely delighted that I’d finally got pregnant. We were living with my dad and looking after him because he was very ill. We had this strange situation where I was growing this baby, and my father was very, very ill, but he was able to touch my tummy and feel Ida kicking, which was completely delightful. Very sadly, he died two weeks before Ida was born.
It reminds you of the cycle of life and death that sometimes, in a family, one door closes and another door opens, and how privileged we were to have that time with him. I was so pleased because he’d been so supportive throughout our five years of heartbreak. He realized that, finally, I was pregnant and that we were going to go on to have this wonderful child.
Ben: It reminds me, actually, though, but I forget how you said it, but I think there was a saying, wasn’t there, that marriage is one long conversation. Looking at fertility treatment, I would actually say that fertility treatment is one long conversation. You have the emotions going through it. You have the thoughts and the conversations, not only our conversations, Becky, but conversations with Tim, they were just as valid, the conversations about this donor treatment that finally worked for us.
I think what I would say is the beauty of donor eggs, the beauty of it, the success rates are very much higher. Once you’ve got your head around the idea of having donated eggs, wherever you have your treatment, wherever in the world, you will know, and your clinic will tell you, that your chances of success are so much higher. It just puts you into a place that is very, very different to those times where, if you’re in your late 30s, as you were, IVF wasn’t working.
Becky: Or early 40s, yes, exactly. It just gives you that positive fuel in your tank, in a sense, to get you through the treatment, to get you through the drugs. Of course, the donor is having all the drugs, and you’re aligned with the donor, preparing your body to receive the embryo, et cetera. The most important thing I think we also need to mention is that when you do have your donor egg baby, when your baby is born, it is utterly your own baby. It’s that moment of joy. I remember Ben in the hospital. [chuckles] It was the most overexcited I’ve ever seen. It was just completely adorable.
Ben: It’s an amazing thing. I think this is the thing that people worry about, “Will I bond with my baby?” We’ve talked about this before. Believe me, you’ll be bonding with your baby at the birth and well before it. A lot of people ask the question, “What is life like with donor kids?”
Becky: Well, it’s just normal. The thing is, you become a parent. The first baby you have, it’s a baptism of fire. You don’t know what you’re doing. It’s complete chaos. As you learn to grow up as a parent with your child, and then if you’re lucky enough to have another child, we had Coral, life with donor kids is normal. It’s not an issue. We’ve spoken to our kids about their miracle history in the sense that they were created by three people, by this amazing donor in the Czech Republic, and ourselves, and that I carried Ida and Coral.
What’s really sweet is that Ida has a map of the Czech Republic on her wall that she just put up herself. We had no idea that she was doing that. Then we discovered that she’s quite into languages. She’s only 12, but she’s got a bit of a fix with the Duolingo. I said, “Oh, what languages are you learning?” She went, “Oh, Spanish and Italian and Czech.” I was like, “Oh, Czech. Great.” [chuckles]
Ben: It’s in her DNA because we have told the children.
Becky: It’s so sweet, though, isn’t it?
Ben: We told the children from an early age that they were donor-conceived, and they–
Becky: They were special.
Ben: They were special. Coral, by the way, also loves the Czech Republic, particularly the saunas.
Becky: Yes. [chuckles] Last time we went to the Czech Republic, we discovered a spa or hotel as a treat for a couple of days. They discovered saunas and then the ice bath. They were just hysterical. [laughs]
Ben: They were amazed.
Becky: They were running off into the ice bath, then back to the sauna, into the ice bath again. It was just so funny.
Ben: I think just going back, Becky, to the big decision, the do I have donor eggs or not thing, the thing I would say is that you have to do that process of accepting it. It doesn’t come immediately. There are some people who have offered their opinions as to our life choices in using donor eggs in a negative way. We politely ignore them. To be fair to them, I think it’s just that hard-wiring side of their brain, just not being able to comprehend that there is an alternative way of doing things.
Becky: I just wanted to pick up on that because there was a friend who did say to me, “Did you ever feel like you’d failed as a woman?” I was like, “Whoa, gosh, no.” That was quite tough to take. As you can see, I still think about it.
Ben: Well, you’re hardwired to reproduce– Not that you have to, but you’re hardwired to reproduce using your own eggs and your own tissue. I think, as I say, it would be fantastic to have a psychologist or an anthropologist on the show to verify whether that’s the reason why some people are against other people’s decisions to have donor eggs or donor sperm. We should think, shouldn’t we, also about couples and singles who decide to have donor embryos. We had Mike and Jess in the last series, and we talked to them about this. Donor embryos is one step further from donor eggs, isn’t it?
Becky: It’s amazing, yes.
Ben: Absolutely as valid as donor eggs, but one step further. To have that as an option for your treatment is wonderful. In this country, as we’ve said, the laws are very liberal for a variety of fertility treatments. We’re seeing the popularity of donor embryos as well.
Becky: Yes, it’s really increased. It’s just amazing to see that opportunity for couples or for single women or even single dads who just want to have that opportunity to have a donor embryo. It’s just brilliant.
Ben: I’m glad you mentioned single dads because there is a growth. It’s less than single women having fertility treatment, but there is a significant number of single men who also have fertility treatment. For that reason, they have to use obviously a surrogate. They may use their sperm, but they’re going to have to use a donor egg or the surrogate’s egg. Again, there’s a whole minefield of things to get your head around there. There’s a lot to think about, but I think once you’ve thought about it and decide to do it, that is a wonderful opportunity for single men as well.
Becky: Yes, exactly. It brings us on to that idea of gratitude, doesn’t it? The gratitude I feel towards our donor is just huge, and towards our clinic and towards all the people that believed in us and supported us.
Ben: I remember after our successful cycle, being in the waiting room, I think we were paying our bill actually at the desk after the transfer. We were brimming with positivity and gratitude. You can imagine when you get to the big day, embryo transfer, the big moment, and it works. It’s the end of a very long journey because the journey isn’t just at the start of the treatment. The journey to a donor egg baby starts when you first have that seed, like we talked about, implanted in you. It’s actually, for many people, a very long journey. I think it’s important not to underestimate the emotions of embryo transfer using a donor egg.
Becky: When we had Ida and we had Coral, we decided to film them in the Czech Republic. They were very little. They were very sweet. They were like age three and age five. They were running around in these beautiful Czech woods just outside Brno, near this idyllic lake. We wrote a poem to our donor. I think anyone who decides to go for donor conception, once it works, this gratitude stays with you for the rest of your life.
Ben: It definitely does. For the patients that we’ve helped, we keep in touch with a lot of patients who we’ve helped on the donor conception route as their coordinators. They’re very happy people. Some of them had existing children and then bring a donor-conceived child into their family. Again, this is another thing they worried about continually. I remember the conversations. All we hear is positive thoughts that, actually, if you have existing children and you then have another child that’s donor-conceived, things work out absolutely fine.
Becky: It’s all about the children, isn’t it? It’s about how we parent and how we see our donor egg children once you’ve made that decision.
Ben: Also, how the donor-conceived child sees you and grows up in the world, because our two children, as we wax lyrical about all the time, are very, very adjusted to life. They understand what’s happened in terms of their conception. Looking ahead to some of the guests in this season, so please stay with us for the rest of the episodes. We have a very, very interesting episode where a 13-year-old donor-conceived daughter, her name is Eve, speaks about her perspective as being donor-conceived, and she’s joined by her mum as well. I can’t wait for that one.
Becky: Yes, that’s a good one, isn’t it? We also have a great episode, I think it’s Episode 2, interviewing a same-sex female couple. They talk about their story, followed by a single woman who is going through IVF treatment.
Ben: Both those episodes, again, donation is at the heart of it. Episode 2, the same-sex couple who used a sperm donor, and then one of the couple then became an egg donor, which is an amazing story. Then in Episode 3, we’re joined by Sarah, who’s used a sperm donor. I think what we’re trying to do in this season is really fling our net far and wide throughout the personal patient journey, but also from people working in the fertility sector. We have a doctor, don’t we-
Becky: Yes, we do.
Ben: -coming from the clinic that we worked with?
Becky: We do.
Ben: Two doctors.
Becky: We have two doctors coming from the clinic we work with. We have a surgeon coming in who’s going to talk about the womb.
Ben: The medical herbalist.
Becky: That’d be amazing. She’s also going to talk about reflexology.
Ben: One of the big ones that we’re going to be doing this season is about fertility in the workplace. This is going to be really relevant, whether having IVF or donor eggs or donor sperm, because it’s all about the employer understanding where you’re coming from, understanding what you’re going through, giving you the time and the support through that process.
Becky: We all have to work. Some of us don’t, but most people have to work. When you’re going through fertility treatment, it is extremely expensive. It takes up a lot of your time. It is extremely important to have the workplace on your side, the bosses, the colleagues on your side. I’m really looking forward to that one.
Ben: This episode is about donor eggs. That’s just one choice of treatment. If you are in a employment environment where you can share the complexities of having donor conception to your boss, I just hope they will be particularly understanding. I think we’re going to find in that episode that most employers are.
[music]
Becky: You’ve been listening to Becky and Ben’s Fertility Spotlight. Join us on social media or the official website, fertility-spotlight.com.
Ben: Do tell your friends about the podcast, and if you like it, please consider supporting us.
Becky: In the next episode, we’ll be meeting same-sex IVFers, Hannah and Maria.
Ben: Remember, always speak to a doctor for personalized medical advice.
Becky: Until next time, don’t despair.
Ben: We’ll get there.
[00:21:57]
I Had Donor Eggs – Here Are 4 Things I Learned
Choosing to have donor-egg treatment was the biggest decision of my life. I want to summarise the road to that decision – after all the elation of my successful treatment a decade ago. And from the perspective of my life now, as a busy mum to two (donor-conceived) daughters, now aged 9 and 12. Was it the right decision? Of course. But looking back at my younger self, I can see clearly the mental barriers and obstacles I had to overcome. You think. You worry. You think some more. And then you jump in.
So here are 4 key things – or should I say mental challenges – that I remember from that exciting but turbulent time. I learned to reflect and assess. And through that, I met a newer version of myself. A person that managed to see the bigger picture about the nature of conception and the world. I came to see fertility treatment as a kind of journey into myself, not just the unknown. You come full circle when you battle infertility.
1. Saying goodbye to my own eggs.
I was sitting at my kitchen table, staring into space, trying to avoid feeling hollow and desperate. My husband Ben and I were reeling from another IVF failure with my own eggs. Suddenly, a shaft of sunlight hit the tired, wooden surface of the kitchen dresser. I heard the footsteps of Ben flying down the stairs. He rushed into the room, with a look of hope on his pale face. ‘When you have donor eggs in the Czech Republic,’ he said, ‘ you have a 70% chance of success!’
I looked at him, slightly taken aback. And then it dawned on me: this form of treatment, which I had never heard of, gave us a fighting chance of having a baby. I needed more time. I knew it would mean the end of trying with my precious eggs – part of me. The dream of a little girl or boy with my heritage and DNA. And saying goodbye to recognising elements of my long-gone mum in their faces. Or the awkward gait of my dad in their physicality. Or the combined emotional and physical traits of Ben and me. Literally the living consequence of our love together.
Fast forward six months, and after intense fertility counselling, Ben and I decided to finally go for it. We tool that psychological leap. What did I learn here? That keeping an open mind was key. Not that other couples with open minds should be expected to do the same. For me, it was holding onto a feeling deep within me: that the nature of a child’s fertilisation, conception or gestation does not define her. Her life does that.
2. The donor process – holding my nerve.
With a mixture of trepidation and excitement, we researched clinics, donors, donor matching, safety and screening. A journalist had written a rave review about a clinic in the Czech Republic, Reprofit. She called it Europe’s best-kept fertility secret. We discovered that Brno, where the clinic was located, was a university city with access to young, healthy donors, rigorously screened. Donors were compensated under Czech law. Everything seemed above board and refreshingly straightforward.
Donors were also anonymous, as in most European countries. But we discovered we could give details of eye and hair colour, height, weight, education, even hobbies, as part of the donor-matching process. The clinic encouraged me to send photos of myself.
The hardest part? Keeping our nerve. The newness of it all, and the decision to go ahead, was a step well outside our comfort zone. Things could end well or badly. It was a risk we were prepared to take. Keeping our feet on the ground during this overwhelming period was hard. We kept strong, and calm. Mostly.
3. Social exclusion – would we experience it?
It was a big step for me and Ben to have donor-egg treatment. Maybe we didn’t anticipate this, but it was also a big step for our family and friends. The topic was often not discussed, during or after our treatment.
Ostensibly, our families welcomed our first donor-egg baby with open arms. I think they were so relieved that we had finally succeeded. Ida was beautiful, and still is, in nature and appearance. Our families cooed. But, as a woman, I was highly sensitised to any glance, or awkward pause, if the subject of the donor or donor eggs came up.
I come from a liberal family. Family members had seen us go through so much pain and heartbreak in our infertility journey that I think they were genuinely delighted to welcome their new niece into the family. What did they really think, and does it matter? Families are complex. You can only hold on to your beliefs and decisions. Your life.
Friends were delighted, especially close female ones who had witnessed our fertility journey from the beginning. In fact, one, who happened to be single in her early forties, decided to be a solo mum with double donation (a donated embryo) at a top clinic in Spain. Had we inspired her? Hope so. The primeval need for most women to have children transgresses the need to be validated by their inherited DNA. Donor eggs and embryo adoption are two of life’s greatest gifts.
So we learned to quietly defend and assert our family choices. Throughput the bliss and hard work of parenthood, we haven’t had the time to care what everyone thought. But we know that most were thrilled for us.
4. Life with donor-conceived kids – would we cope?
We told our girls from a very early age that they were donor conceived. I wanted to let them know how helpful and supportive women can be with each other. The ‘egg lady’ helped us create the miracles that are Ida and Coral. We explained how three people were involved in their conception, and how lucky we were to have them. The girls were mildly interested but not particularly bothered. That remains the case today. They know, but they live their lives. They seize the day. They’re happy.
We have a few friends with donor-conceived children. But egg donation doesn’t dominate our family narrative. Having fun, being playful, enjoying friendships, family, good food, holidays and new experiences are the stories and memories that we live and create together.
My children’s childhood has taught me to celebrate these two incredible human beings. They are children of the world, not a clinic, or a lab. There will be a point when their donor status means little. For now, I toast the present – and their future.
To hear more about Becky’s decision to have donor eggs, listen to our podcast episode (see below). She’s joined by her partner, Ben. Hope you enjoy it!
Becky: This is Becky & Ben’s Fertility Spotlight.
Ben: We’ve helped thousands of IVF couples.
Becky: We’re here to share kindness, insights, and surprises.
Ben: Today, we’re talking about donor eggs and whether they’re right for you or not.
Becky: Our podcast is general information only. Always speak to a healthcare professional about your situation.
Ben: Let’s get started on egg donation and the key things to think about.
[music]
Becky: Here we are, Season 2. It’s absolutely brilliant to be back. Thank you so much, everyone, for listening to Season 1 of Becky and Ben’s Fertility Spotlight.
Ben: We really appreciate all the comments that you’ve sent, all the emails, all the suggestions for programme ideas and things like that. Thank you so much.
Becky: Today, we are going to look at a big decision. Basically, should you have donor eggs?
Ben: What we’re talking about is that big decision, the decision to have donor eggs. Becky, you’ll remember that the first time we encountered the idea of having donor eggs, it wasn’t really that positive, was it?
Becky: No. I remember some friends came to visit, and they’d been struggling with their IVF experience. They walked into our kitchen with two beautiful babies. I was like, “Oh, goodness, look at these gorgeous babies.” She was like, “Yes, look at my donor egg twins.” I was like, “Oh, wow, in my head, donor egg, donor egg, donor egg.” I’d never even heard of the term. My visceral reaction, and I’m ashamed of it, ashamed of saying it now, was like, “Oh my God, I can never go there.” I came away from that experience thinking, I am ignorant, and I have just been quite judgmental.
Ben: I was on a walk that evening after they left, just thinking, I’m so pleased for them, but I couldn’t do it. I couldn’t countenance the idea of donated eggs.
Becky: What’s really important to say is, is that we hadn’t even started on our IVF experience. We hadn’t even had IUIs. We hadn’t even had any IVF cycles. We had no understanding of the heartbreak and the challenges that you go through when you have repeated failure. We weren’t even in that place.
Ben: Yes, we weren’t in the place. The zone we were in was achieving with our own eggs, and we hadn’t even started fertility treatment. We weren’t being ungenerous towards them at all. We showed our delight to them, of course. I think the point we’re trying to make here is this, that almost every single person, I would say, who contemplates the idea of donated eggs is not sure initially. Nobody just goes, “Yes, donor eggs, great, that’s a great idea.”
Becky: It’s very rare. It’s often connected with grieving the loss of one’s own eggs. Often, women who are older, who have had great difficulty conceiving, who have gone through IVF, realize that after three or four cycles that the chances of them achieving a successful pregnancy are just very, very low. Then, of course, the idea of egg donation comes in and donor embryos, et cetera, et cetera. This offers a very hopeful new future.
Ben: We’re talking here about that moment for the first time, when you think about it, where a seed is planted in your head, where many people just are saying to themselves, either consciously or unconsciously, “I just need a bit more time here.” It reminded me of a patient that we helped, patients actually, Liz and Rob, who kindly allowed us to film a video testimonial of them after they succeeded with donated eggs, and we helped them along the way. Liz particularly, she’s a GP, and she has that sense of articulation and professionalism about the way that she approaches medical situations.
What she basically said was, if donor eggs may be on the cards for you, park it in the back of your brain, think about it as an option. You may come around to it in three months, it may be three years. She just says it so correctly because it is a process, because fertility treatment is about emotions, but it is also about thinking quite hard about your options.
Becky: That’s so true. I love that idea of parking the idea and literally in a lay-by in your head, like a car or a bicycle, just leaving it there and thinking, “Okay, I might just revisit this idea in three months.” As we’ve mentioned before in previous episodes, we had six months of counseling to come around to the idea of going for it with donor conception. Ben did a lot of research.
Ben: I did the research, and yes, we had the counseling, and it helped both in terms of framing our thoughts for the next chapter, i.e., donor eggs, which we were still considering at the time. Bidding farewell to your eggs, Becky, which I know was huge for you.
Becky: For you.
Ben: It was not nice witnessing it because it is so deeply, deeply personal.
Becky: It was really hard. I suppose in the end, and I’ve mentioned this before, you weigh up how much you just really want to have a family, have a baby, and you come to the realization that the only way to do that when you’re 43, for example, is to have a leap of faith and think, “Okay, there are these amazing donors out there who are wonderful people, prepared to donate their eggs to women they have no idea of who they are.” It was a leap of faith that made me think, “Okay, well, I’m going to go for it. I’m going to be brave. They–
Ben: We were prepared to do that leap of faith after maybe six, nine months, something like that, wasn’t it? Sometimes it takes people a bit longer to get their heads around it. I think the point we’re trying to say here is it is a big decision for us and for the people that we’ve been fortunate enough to help along the way. Donor eggs did come to our aid. Becky, we should just mention the other big one. Obviously, the big one is the decision in the first place. The second one that everybody asks about, and we did too, having made the decision, is donor matching.
Becky: Yes, donor matching.
Ben: Will my donor look like me or you?
Becky: Yes, that’s key. That’s absolutely key. We had our treatment in the Czech Republic, where donors are anonymous, but we did have some information, and that she was university-educated, she was good at sport, and just various things that we learnt about, but it was limited. We knew that this donor was 20 years old. She was probably a medical student; we’re not sure, but Brno is a university town. We decided to go for it. We knew that we would give our photographs, and the clinic would match our photographs with this anonymous donor.
Ben: The match seemed pretty good to us. I think most people that we’ve spoken to understand that an exact match is never– It’s usually not possible.
Becky: Exactly. Also, people have kids from their own genetic heritage who don’t look like them, or they might look like their grandparents. It’s a bit of a lottery, really, but we have two gorgeous kids who I think look like us. Not that that’s the point.
Ben: I think what we should just say, given that we’re looking at the basic questions here about the donor route, is just to say maybe try not to get too hung up on donor matching. There’ll always be a clinic out there somewhere in the world, probably in California– I love you, California, by the way– where you can actually see photos of your donors, and you can do fantastic matches, and everything’s perfect. For most people, certainly in the EU, you don’t get photos of your donor. You do rely on the doctor, and the chances are pretty good of a pretty good match.
Moving on then, as we said in series one, our first donor egg cycle, very sadly, didn’t work. Becky, it just pains me even to think about what you went through, but you basically had to have a medical termination at 14 weeks. Kindness got us through it. I remember, for example, the hospital vicar coming and saying a prayer for us. That meant a lot, didn’t it?
Becky: It did. He was so sensitive and so sweet to us. We weren’t even religious, but he just came into the hospital room, and he said a prayer for us.
Ben: It was also another vicar in the family, actually, in my family, who said a few days later, he said, “You do realize, don’t you, that you are a family already,” which I thought was a very nice thing to say. It did work for us the second time, and we were actually delighted with that. Your pregnancy happened during a sad time because your father was ill, Tim, and we were looking after him during the pregnancy. It was a very special moment for us.
Becky: Yes, it was a very special time because obviously we were absolutely delighted that I’d finally got pregnant. We were living with my dad and looking after him because he was very ill. We had this strange situation where I was growing this baby, and my father was very, very ill, but he was able to touch my tummy and feel Ida kicking, which was completely delightful. Very sadly, he died two weeks before Ida was born.
It reminds you of the cycle of life and death that sometimes, in a family, one door closes and another door opens, and how privileged we were to have that time with him. I was so pleased because he’d been so supportive throughout our five years of heartbreak. He realized that, finally, I was pregnant and that we were going to go on to have this wonderful child.
Ben: It reminds me, actually, though, but I forget how you said it, but I think there was a saying, wasn’t there, that marriage is one long conversation. Looking at fertility treatment, I would actually say that fertility treatment is one long conversation. You have the emotions going through it. You have the thoughts and the conversations, not only our conversations, Becky, but conversations with Tim, they were just as valid, the conversations about this donor treatment that finally worked for us.
I think what I would say is the beauty of donor eggs, the beauty of it, the success rates are very much higher. Once you’ve got your head around the idea of having donated eggs, wherever you have your treatment, wherever in the world, you will know, and your clinic will tell you, that your chances of success are so much higher. It just puts you into a place that is very, very different to those times where, if you’re in your late 30s, as you were, IVF wasn’t working.
Becky: Or early 40s, yes, exactly. It just gives you that positive fuel in your tank, in a sense, to get you through the treatment, to get you through the drugs. Of course, the donor is having all the drugs, and you’re aligned with the donor, preparing your body to receive the embryo, et cetera. The most important thing I think we also need to mention is that when you do have your donor egg baby, when your baby is born, it is utterly your own baby. It’s that moment of joy. I remember Ben in the hospital. [chuckles] It was the most overexcited I’ve ever seen. It was just completely adorable.
Ben: It’s an amazing thing. I think this is the thing that people worry about, “Will I bond with my baby?” We’ve talked about this before. Believe me, you’ll be bonding with your baby at the birth and well before it. A lot of people ask the question, “What is life like with donor kids?”
Becky: Well, it’s just normal. The thing is, you become a parent. The first baby you have, it’s a baptism of fire. You don’t know what you’re doing. It’s complete chaos. As you learn to grow up as a parent with your child, and then if you’re lucky enough to have another child, we had Coral, life with donor kids is normal. It’s not an issue. We’ve spoken to our kids about their miracle history in the sense that they were created by three people, by this amazing donor in the Czech Republic, and ourselves, and that I carried Ida and Coral.
What’s really sweet is that Ida has a map of the Czech Republic on her wall that she just put up herself. We had no idea that she was doing that. Then we discovered that she’s quite into languages. She’s only 12, but she’s got a bit of a fix with the Duolingo. I said, “Oh, what languages are you learning?” She went, “Oh, Spanish and Italian and Czech.” I was like, “Oh, Czech. Great.” [chuckles]
Ben: It’s in her DNA because we have told the children.
Becky: It’s so sweet, though, isn’t it?
Ben: We told the children from an early age that they were donor-conceived, and they–
Becky: They were special.
Ben: They were special. Coral, by the way, also loves the Czech Republic, particularly the saunas.
Becky: Yes. [chuckles] Last time we went to the Czech Republic, we discovered a spa or hotel as a treat for a couple of days. They discovered saunas and then the ice bath. They were just hysterical. [laughs]
Ben: They were amazed.
Becky: They were running off into the ice bath, then back to the sauna, into the ice bath again. It was just so funny.
Ben: I think just going back, Becky, to the big decision, the do I have donor eggs or not thing, the thing I would say is that you have to do that process of accepting it. It doesn’t come immediately. There are some people who have offered their opinions as to our life choices in using donor eggs in a negative way. We politely ignore them. To be fair to them, I think it’s just that hard-wiring side of their brain, just not being able to comprehend that there is an alternative way of doing things.
Becky: I just wanted to pick up on that because there was a friend who did say to me, “Did you ever feel like you’d failed as a woman?” I was like, “Whoa, gosh, no.” That was quite tough to take. As you can see, I still think about it.
Ben: Well, you’re hardwired to reproduce– Not that you have to, but you’re hardwired to reproduce using your own eggs and your own tissue. I think, as I say, it would be fantastic to have a psychologist or an anthropologist on the show to verify whether that’s the reason why some people are against other people’s decisions to have donor eggs or donor sperm. We should think, shouldn’t we, also about couples and singles who decide to have donor embryos. We had Mike and Jess in the last series, and we talked to them about this. Donor embryos is one step further from donor eggs, isn’t it?
Becky: It’s amazing, yes.
Ben: Absolutely as valid as donor eggs, but one step further. To have that as an option for your treatment is wonderful. In this country, as we’ve said, the laws are very liberal for a variety of fertility treatments. We’re seeing the popularity of donor embryos as well.
Becky: Yes, it’s really increased. It’s just amazing to see that opportunity for couples or for single women or even single dads who just want to have that opportunity to have a donor embryo. It’s just brilliant.
Ben: I’m glad you mentioned single dads because there is a growth. It’s less than single women having fertility treatment, but there is a significant number of single men who also have fertility treatment. For that reason, they have to use obviously a surrogate. They may use their sperm, but they’re going to have to use a donor egg or the surrogate’s egg. Again, there’s a whole minefield of things to get your head around there. There’s a lot to think about, but I think once you’ve thought about it and decide to do it, that is a wonderful opportunity for single men as well.
Becky: Yes, exactly. It brings us on to that idea of gratitude, doesn’t it? The gratitude I feel towards our donor is just huge, and towards our clinic and towards all the people that believed in us and supported us.
Ben: I remember after our successful cycle, being in the waiting room, I think we were paying our bill actually at the desk after the transfer. We were brimming with positivity and gratitude. You can imagine when you get to the big day, embryo transfer, the big moment, and it works. It’s the end of a very long journey because the journey isn’t just at the start of the treatment. The journey to a donor egg baby starts when you first have that seed, like we talked about, implanted in you. It’s actually, for many people, a very long journey. I think it’s important not to underestimate the emotions of embryo transfer using a donor egg.
Becky: When we had Ida and we had Coral, we decided to film them in the Czech Republic. They were very little. They were very sweet. They were like age three and age five. They were running around in these beautiful Czech woods just outside Brno, near this idyllic lake. We wrote a poem to our donor. I think anyone who decides to go for donor conception, once it works, this gratitude stays with you for the rest of your life.
Ben: It definitely does. For the patients that we’ve helped, we keep in touch with a lot of patients who we’ve helped on the donor conception route as their coordinators. They’re very happy people. Some of them had existing children and then bring a donor-conceived child into their family. Again, this is another thing they worried about continually. I remember the conversations. All we hear is positive thoughts that, actually, if you have existing children and you then have another child that’s donor-conceived, things work out absolutely fine.
Becky: It’s all about the children, isn’t it? It’s about how we parent and how we see our donor egg children once you’ve made that decision.
Ben: Also, how the donor-conceived child sees you and grows up in the world, because our two children, as we wax lyrical about all the time, are very, very adjusted to life. They understand what’s happened in terms of their conception. Looking ahead to some of the guests in this season, so please stay with us for the rest of the episodes. We have a very, very interesting episode where a 13-year-old donor-conceived daughter, her name is Eve, speaks about her perspective as being donor-conceived, and she’s joined by her mum as well. I can’t wait for that one.
Becky: Yes, that’s a good one, isn’t it? We also have a great episode, I think it’s Episode 2, interviewing a same-sex female couple. They talk about their story, followed by a single woman who is going through IVF treatment.
Ben: Both those episodes, again, donation is at the heart of it. Episode 2, the same-sex couple who used a sperm donor, and then one of the couple then became an egg donor, which is an amazing story. Then in Episode 3, we’re joined by Sarah, who’s used a sperm donor. I think what we’re trying to do in this season is really fling our net far and wide throughout the personal patient journey, but also from people working in the fertility sector. We have a doctor, don’t we-
Becky: Yes, we do.
Ben: -coming from the clinic that we worked with?
Becky: We do.
Ben: Two doctors.
Becky: We have two doctors coming from the clinic we work with. We have a surgeon coming in who’s going to talk about the womb.
Ben: The medical herbalist.
Becky: That’d be amazing. She’s also going to talk about reflexology.
Ben: One of the big ones that we’re going to be doing this season is about fertility in the workplace. This is going to be really relevant, whether having IVF or donor eggs or donor sperm, because it’s all about the employer understanding where you’re coming from, understanding what you’re going through, giving you the time and the support through that process.
Becky: We all have to work. Some of us don’t, but most people have to work. When you’re going through fertility treatment, it is extremely expensive. It takes up a lot of your time. It is extremely important to have the workplace on your side, the bosses, the colleagues on your side. I’m really looking forward to that one.
Ben: This episode is about donor eggs. That’s just one choice of treatment. If you are in a employment environment where you can share the complexities of having donor conception to your boss, I just hope they will be particularly understanding. I think we’re going to find in that episode that most employers are.
[music]
Becky: You’ve been listening to Becky and Ben’s Fertility Spotlight. Join us on social media or the official website, fertility-spotlight.com.
Ben: Do tell your friends about the podcast, and if you like it, please consider supporting us.
Becky: In the next episode, we’ll be meeting same-sex IVFers, Hannah and Maria.
Ben: Remember, always speak to a doctor for personalized medical advice.
Becky: Until next time, don’t despair.
Ben: We’ll get there.
[00:21:57]
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